Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Connecticut Navy town relates to Russian submarine accident]

Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:57:13 EDT

From: MOFFETT654@aol.com

To: gtucker@povn.com

G'day Gary,

I think Chuck was in part a victim of his own success. The taint of the

Nixon White House and Watergate had to effect his chances for political

appointment in a Democrat administration, and knowing Clinton as we do now I

suspect Chuck's aviation, submarine, nuclear, and special projects

credentials were too imposing. He would have done better with George Bush

who was neither a draft dodger nor a legal showman, and was for a time our

DCI boss!

Galen and Bucky Biddle stopped by while I was in Hawaii after Halibut and we

had a great day sailing Kaneohe Bay some three decades before Baywatch

Hawaii discovered the place. Seems I recall a note from Galen last winter that he

was planning to open a B&B up in Sitka. I didn't know about the boat

deliveries. I haven't decided on the reunion yet. My last was back in '82 and it was

difficult even then. Now with BMB and more Hollywood projects afoot it will

be a target for all sorts of folks looking for details and storylines we

have pledged to protect and this time it won't be just tearful wives wanting to

know. The pressure from Roger for the details of BJ's untimely passing to

put some substance in his tale of Hotel Street liberties and breaches of

faith in the propulsion plant was embarrassing for us both. I'd do anything

to get together with the guys in a way that we were free to talk about those

days, but I don't see that happening in Atlantic City any more than it did

at Mare some two decades ago. The fact that some of the story is out makes it

even harder to contain the rest, the real meat of the whole thing that would

set Drew and Sontag back on their heels and have scriptwriters pounding their

computers. Reality is a bitch!

Regards,

Peter

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Connecticut Navy town relates to Russian submarine accident]

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:41:34 EDT

From: MOFFETT654@aol.com

To: gtucker@povn.com

Gary,

I worked for ComSubDevGru ONE for many years after HALIBUT and the DSRVs

Were part of the strange collection of submersibles and other stuff we operated.

The WSJ piece was forwarded to me by Charlie MacVean, first CO of Seawolf,

after she got the Halibut mods, and later CSDG1. Also Dick Hall of the

Halibut Project gang and later at Dev Gru was one of the COs of DSRV Avalon.

Chuck Larson, last CO of Halibut and featured reunion speaker, was also

CSDG1 for a while and was in a position to make sure the Navy didn't object

to Roger Dunham's book before it went to press. Small world.

Regards,

Peter

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Connecticut Navy town relates to Russian submarine accident]

Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:43:45 EDT

From: MOFFETT654@aol.com

To: gtucker@povn.com

Gary,

Fram the WSJ online:

WRITTEN ON WATER

The Death of the Kursk

Clinton could have ordered a rescue operation. Instead, he went to L.A. and

delivered a tribute to himself.

BY MARK HELPRIN

Tuesday, August 22, 2000 12:01 a.m. EDT

If Russia is an enigma wrapped in a riddle shrouded by mystery, its military

is the holy of holies, and the navy traditionally the most secret.

Traditionally, because not so long ago, when navies were the first

Instrument of national power, victory was often a matter of removing or maintaining the

veils of secrecy surrounding the location of ships and fleets, their

communications, and their exact capabilities. Of the various branches of

navies the submarine services are still the most opaque, and of all the

places in the world to be, the ocean above the Arctic Circle is among the

most forbidding and least hospitable.

That is why at this point only someone willing according to the dictates of

his imagination to substitute potential for fact can claim to know exactly

what happened to the Kursk. No one knows without doubt even what happened to

the USS Maine or to EgyptAir Flight 990, as reconstruction can be as

unreliable as prediction.

 

 

Nonetheless, it is possible to weigh and judge the probabilities of the

ever-changing scenarios presented as fact or floating up as rumor. When the

Russians suggested that the Kursk may have collided with a U.S. submarine,

they had not stepped beyond the bounds of propriety. American submarines

have been extraordinarily, justifiably, and reciprocally bold in their

penetration and reconnaissance of Soviet and (presumably) Russian waters, and it is

hardly far-fetched to consider such a collision during a complex exercise in

a crowded sea. Reportedly, two American submarines were on the scene.

If the U.S. were involved (responsibility is another question, as it takes

two to collide), eventually the facts would come out. There are simply too

many sailors, too many families, and too many shipyard workers who would

have to repair or see the damage that would have inevitably resulted. The

Russians stated that shortly after the Kursk went down they monitored an American

submarine requesting emergency permission to enter Norwegian waters. A

vessel that would not ask permission to shadow a Russian ship nearly to its berth

in Severomorsk would hardly feel the need, especially if it had a guilty

conscience, to petition an ally for leave to transit its empty arctic sea

space. And if such a request were made, it would more likely be so that the

submarine could leave the area as quickly as possible, to wait in friendly

waters until summoned to aid a rescue operation.

Although the fairwater planes of certain classes of U.S. submarines would be

capable of ripping through a ship's plating like a knife, the Kursk is

doubled-walled, with a gap of 13 feet between the outer and inner hull. Even

though in the geometry of a hypothetical collision the inner hull is out of

reach, on each side of the Kursk are banks of 12 surface-to-surface missiles

with a total of 20,000 pounds of high explosive and 66 tons of energy-rich

propellant. Still, an explosion triggered by crushing the missile tubes

would probably be so catastrophic as to break up the entire craft and destroy

anything close to it. It is most unlikely that the United States contributed

to the sinking of the Kursk, and, if it did, keeping such a thing quiet

would require deniability even beyond the talents of an administration that

doesn't know what is is.

Geometry militates as well against the Russian claim, advanced a few days

after the accident, that the Kursk may have been struck by a Russian

icebreaker. The deepest draft of any of these ships is about 35 feet,

meaning that to sustain damage along its side the Kursk would have to have been

running on or breaching the surface, in which case the crew of the

icebreaker certainly would have been aware of something untoward.

The best supposition is that the Kursk fell victim to an internal explosion.

Soviet submarines are not strangers to all kinds of propulsion mishaps,

including nuclear, and if the intricacies of a vessel's power plant are

suspect, so will be the measures to guard against premature detonation of

its armament. If American carriers and battleships can be crippled and nearly

sunk by munitions accidents, so can Russian submarines. Or perhaps the Kursk

struck a mine left over from the Second World War or of more recent vintage.

It is possible that in the course of their exercise the Russians

inadvertently loosed a homing torpedo. Perhaps something happened that no

one has even considered.

We may never know. But we can know, and we do know, exactly and precisely

what we did wrong when faced with this crisis--the Russians in particular

but the U.S. as well. A Russian mechanic, one Vladimir Starodubtsov, evidenced

more leadership, decisiveness, and character than either of the two

presidents of Russia and the United States. "What a disgrace!" he said.

"They should have used all available means simultaneously from the very start."

How right he was. There is no question that immediately upon hearing of the

accident every power of remedy, redundant or not, should have been brought

to bear. Without even putting down the phone that alerted him, Mr. Putin should

have called upon Britain, the United States, and anyone else in a position

to help. Strange are the ways of a habitual dictatorship, but that is no excuse

for the unexceptional performance of President Clinton. On Saturday, he was

or should have been informed of the Kursk. Whether or not he had heard from

the Russians, he should have ordered a Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle, or

DSRV, and its appropriate support to stage in Europe, and to prepare to

receive instructions while in the air for diversion to Murmansk.

We have two DSRVs, both based in San Diego. They can lift off from North

Island Naval Air Station in C-5 transports, and are automatically readied at

first news of submarine disaster anywhere in the world. Each can operate to

a depth of 5,000 feet, rescue to a depth of 2,000, and adjust to a list of up

to 45 degrees. Listing at 20 degrees in 350 feet of water, the Kursk would

be no special challenge for DSRV Mystic or DSRV Avalon, except perhaps in

regard to hatch compatibility. In 1981, the U.S. provided every submarine-producing

nation in the world, including the Soviet Union, specifications to allow

them to make escape hatches compatible with the DSRVs. These are now standardized

world-wide, except perhaps in Russia. There is no reason why Russia should

not have standardized as well, especially in so new a boat, but even had

they not, two options would have remained. The "skirt" of the DSRV, which links to the hatch to form an airtight seal,is flexible. Even were adjustment insufficient, with the dimensions of the Russian hatch rim an adapter could have been fabricated in quick time and flown to the scene. That the hatch was damaged might not have been

insurmountable; for every engineering problem there is an engineering

solution. Had the two nations devoted their best energies to removing

survivors, they might have been lifted out--up to 24 at a time--in the

homely but agile DSRV. And the DSRV could have been in Murmansk on Sunday and in

operation on Monday, when, according to the latest Russian statement, the

last sounds were heard from within the stricken boat--of sailors, trapped in

the freezing, air-depleted darkness, who were knocking to show that they

were still alive. But the DSRVs were not tasked, the airfields not lined up, the C-5s not dispatched, the adapter not forged, the announcements not made. Why?

Lethargy. Lack of imagination. Incompetence. Distraction. On Saturday, the

president should have held a news conference, announcing that we were not in

any way involved in the accident but that we were aware of it, and that we

were offering our help to Russia. To prevent a complicating Russian

humiliation, he would state that "this country, too, in recent memory, has

lost submarines, and the families still grieve. We, too, send our sailors

into arctic waters, and are aware of the danger. Because of this, we stand

ready to help as you wish, and have dispatched our DSRVs to a third country,

to await your summons. They are in the air now, and will divert to Murmansk

if you request. We work together in space. Let us work together on the sea

as well. And let all other considerations fall in favor of the immediate rescue

of your sons, who, for the moment, are our sons too."

 

 

It is possible that survivors of the accident might have been spared the

agonizing death they have apparently suffered, and that relations between

the United States and Russia would have taken a new turn, for the bonds that are

created in the drama of fighting a terrible enemy run as strongly one way as

another. This was an opportunity and a humanitarian obligation that a real

commander in chief would have seized upon and honored without hesitation.

But, of the two presidents, the Russian was merely an apparatchik on

vacation, and the American was busy preparing a convention speech in which

he presented himself as the center of the world. He delivered that speech, and

gloried in it, just after the knocking had stopped.

Mr. Helprin is a novelist, a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal

and a senior fellow at the Claremont Institute. His column appears Tuesdays.